Gear

Gender Neutrality

Share assets between male and female models, possibly allow for the creation of gender-ambiguous, gender-neutral, or androgynous-looking characters (possibly tie gender presentation as an aspect of body type customization, I.E. Saint's Row 2)

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Stage: Active

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-22 votes
60 up votes
82 down votes
Idea#6

Idea Details

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(latest 20 votes)

Similar Ideas [ 4 ]

Events

  1. The idea was posted

Comments

  1. Comment
    rsdancey
    ( Pinned Moderator )

    There are male and female versions of each suit of armor. But they have to be built to fit the bodies - same goes for dwarves and elves, etc. We don't "morph" armor to fit a physique. So what you're essentially advocating is that we either make all the suits of clothing 100% gender neutral - they look exactly the same on both male and female body types - or that we do twice as much work, making a "male" version of female suits of clothing and a "female" version of male suits of clothing.

    I provide this information for context to the voters. This would add very little content to the game (in the latter case) and make things a lot more generic (in the former).

  2. Comment
    Shane Gifford

    At the very least I'm confident we won't get boob-plate and stuff of that nature, which is at least a step forward. :)

  3. Comment
    Tim Jenkins ( Idea Submitter )

    True enough! But still, being only able to pick between a hulking muscle-man and an hourglass-figured seductress puts a lot of limits on what kind of characters you can create, and in a game like Pathfinder Online which is all about carving out a unique niche for yourself, not being able to create a wide variety of distinct characters and getting shoehorned into one of two body types tied to two sets of outfits is downright criminal!

    Comments on this comment

    1. Comment
      Tim Jenkins ( Idea Submitter )

      (I'm looking at you, WildStar and World of Warcraft!)

    2. Comment
      sirzac

      Thank you for bringing up this idea. Full Metal Syndicate is the LGBT company in EE, and we fully support this.

  4. Comment
    Zodd

    I am all for more options for the player to feel immersed in their character. One of my favorite character builders was City of Heroes. I could spend absurds amount of time perfecting how my hero looked. It really gave me a feeling of ownership. I don't want to walk around in PFO and see a bunch of other characters that look identical to mine.

  5. Comment
    Miguel Angel Vasquez

    Yes! I spent hours on Chapions online with the character creator making my androgynous male toons. I want that kind of freedom in PFO. Total customization takes immersion to a whole other level :)

  6. Comment
    Tim Jenkins ( Idea Submitter )

    For the record, having more control over body types, facial features, and character voices would accomplish much of the same effect without necessarily requiring that the gender binary in character creation/equipment be eliminated altogether.

  7. Comment
    Nolondil Leafrunner

    As long as players are not restricted to select the armor type of their genre, I think that answer the requirement. I voted yes anyway to be sure the game will not enforce gender stereotypes. Let the hulking barbarians have their chainmail bikini and the armoured female knight avoid that completely unrealistic and stupid plate with a simulacra of breast forged in...

  8. Comment
    Nolondil Leafrunner

    By the way, if one play a barbarian female, will she be forced to cover her breast ? That's almost as unrealistic as forging fake boobs on a breastplate ...

  9. Comment
    Master of Shadows

    Well, I personally agree with the need for gender neutrality, but basically people need to be able to play out their fantasy's in a fantasy game. It should be as possible to create the Conan behemoth male barbarian and female warrior with gravity defying breasts (see 80's fantasy art) as it is to create real world norms and even very androgynous characters. lets face it Modern gamers want diversity in their characters and I would even go so far as to say that how a character looks on screen is the most important thing to each and every gamer whether the desire is for the Large and imposing to the small and forgettable.

  10. Comment
    Community Member

    This can be looked at in 2021 after the really important stuff. Ryan outlined the issues above and in that context this makes no sense at this time.

  11. Comment
    Zodd

    Well as long as it doesn't get as bad as giving Batman nipples on his chest armor...

    poor Val Kilmer.

  12. Comment
    deisum

    Ryan, will the appearance of my character's armor be forever dictated by a mechanically meaningless binary choice made at character creation? It seems to me you're already doing 'twice as much work to add very little content to the game' by creating two gendered versions of every piece of armor. The argument for binary armor is that it makes the game 'less boring', presumably.

    Why not extend that argument to create a 3rd version of every piece of armor that has as many of the traditional gender characteristics removed and focus it most on pure functionality. Granted, unless your artists are creating hyper-masculine models, the 'male' version is already this. This, naturally, leads to the question of why you're creating hyper-feminized models of armor. My hope is you're not. Please say there won't be be 'boob-plates'?

    Anyway, you've also seemed to overlook the very first part of the suggestion, and the easiest to implement by far: let players choose which character-model of armor they want to appear as, regardless of the selected gender of the character. I'm guessing the current system is modular enough to allow this without too much additional work.

    Comments on this comment

    1. Comment
      deisum

      After all, if magic armor can already resize to fit the wearer, why can't it resize a little differently to fit the wearer's gender identity?

    2. Comment
      Tim Jenkins ( Idea Submitter )

      You put this a lot more elegantly than I did. After all, the extra work making separate male and female armor sets could be better spent making more varied sets of armor that anyone can wear. Why design 3 sets of "male armor" and 3 sets of "female armor", limiting each gender to 3 choices, when you can design 6 sets of gender-neutral outfits and give 6 choices instead of 3?

      Not to mention that even if male and female characters had to necessarily use completely different assets, designing redundant outfit textures with the same design to fit each of them is less work than designing new outfits from scratch.

    3. Comment
      Nolondil Leafrunner

      Thanks a lot Deisum, you explained far more clearly what I intended to convey with my poor English skills.

  13. Comment
    Community Member

    I'm a big supporter of gender stereotypes in fantasy MMORPGs. I want to be a part of a medieval setting where men and women lived out traditional roles. As a role-player I want to play traditional fantasy medieval roles. This escapism is a big draw for me and others.

    Imagine if the PC and gender activists had their way with Renaissance Faires and historical battle reenactments? They would be utterly destroyed.

    I detest the intrusion of political correctness and identity politics into fantasy MMORPGs. Please can we just have one genre of entertainment free from progressive politics?

    Comments on this comment

    1. Comment
      deisum

      So, turns out, being a 'big support of gender stereotypes' is as much a political stance as are critiques of gender stereotypes. That you see options besides traditional gender roles as threatening to your enjoyment of the game also speaks loudly of your politics. While you're clearly free to have and express your political opinions, denying that they are inherently political is disingenuous.

    2. Comment
      Tim Jenkins ( Idea Submitter )

      The fact that a big draw to your idea of "escapism" is not having to deal with people whose gender presentation makes you uncomfortable is also telling. For the record, androgynous-looking, intersex, and transgender people didn't just start existing in modern times, and there weren't magic or dragons in medieval times, so if you want to be a part of whatever your idea of a "medieval setting" is, you're going to have to look somewhere else.

    3. Comment
      Community Member

      Sadly no we cant. But one benefit of Crowdforging is that ideas like this get decided by the community.

  14. Comment
    Community Member

    Luckily it looks like this one wont get enacted so we can skip the crusaders vs defenders political arguments. A win for the Crowdforging concept!

  15. Comment
    deisum

    I think you misunderstand the idea behind Crowdforging: You seem to be under the impression that whatever has the most votes 'wins'. The reality is, Crowdforging is about the devs soliciting feedback from the players, not player mob-mentality designing game features. This site is merely a forum that just happens to have copied the reddit up-vote/down-vote system, nothing more.

  16. Comment
    Community Member

    OK Chief. Let's see who is right when the game launches. Then we will have proof about who misunderstood with no need for debate.

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